John Barilaro inquiry as it happened: Former deputy premier appears at hearing; denies creating trade role for himself

“It was actually the name of the premier that jumped out at me,” Brown told the inquiry.

“I sent a follow-up text to my general counsel to say I didn’t like that... I said, I found it quite threatening.

“It was at that point he was saying that he would talk to [Department of Premier and Cabinet secretary] Michael Coutts-Trotter, or even the minister or the premier, because the current outcome is not what I was offered.”

Labor: Offered by whom?

Brown: I don’t know... whether or not we’re just misaligned on what the contract says or whether there was something else that he’s referring to... In my mind, it was a difference in interpretation. Rereading the correspondence, I can’t be certain of that.

Brown has told the inquiry that Cartwright sought the intervention of then-Trade Minister Stuart Ayres via WhatsApp in March this year, regarding his concerns about how his pay was structured.

Labor: You’re his employer and he went over your head?

Brown: Yeah... The good thing about it was that Minister Ayres contacted me and said: Look, you can do what you like because Mr Cartwright is your employee, I just want to give you a heads up [that] I’ve got this message. It might be a good idea to benchmark against other states and see what they do, but I’m not telling you what to do and I really don’t care about the outcome, basically.

Neither McKay nor Goward were ultimately successful.

Government MP Wes Fang asked Brown whether there was any political pressure placed on her to reverse that decision. She said there was not.

Brown said this happened while the roles were strict public sector appointments - before Barilaro’s cabinet submission to make them ministerial appointments - and so “I wasn’t engaging with any ministers on them at all”.

“I think, to be honest, the salary package and what that package was composed of... Base salary, as it’s known, versus cost of living allowance or even relocation expenses,” Brown said.

“By the time [the appointment process] was transferred to me there seem to be unmatched expectations between the candidate and what I saw as within my delegation to be able to sign off on.

“And so I suppose I had to deliver some hard messages to the candidate, around some of the conversations that had happened previously weren’t going to turn out to be the reality.”

She said she gave the premier’s office at least one update on how the negotiations were progressing.

Last week, Brown told the inquiry that Cartwright felt he had “some sort of an elevated status” in the negotiations. “When negotiations got particularly difficult, he said, ‘I’ll just escalate this to the deputy premier or the premier’,” she said.

Brown: He said that there was a senior media adviser in his office who was looking for new opportunities [and] that he’d heard through the grapevine that we were building out our communicate media and communications team.

I said to him, that is likely to be the case, she’s welcome to... apply for opportunities.

Labor: Just to clarify, Mr Barilaro made no comments in relation to any relationship he had with the senior media adviser, other than a professional one?

Brown: No comments, other than a professional relationship.

Brown told the inquiry that Investment NSW asked Lugsdin to make a conflict of interest declaration in December, after media reports about her relationship with Barilaro.

“But we don’t actually have records of that happening. Most likely because we finished up her employment with us on the 22nd of December, which was only a number of days after,” she said.

Email chains show that Lugsdin was informed that then-trade minister Stuart Ayres wanted to readvertise the New York role through correspondence dated December 10, a week before the role was advertised.

“There are a few things to talk about here. Firstly, you’ve just won a historic third term. I think the last thing I’d be doing is talking about my exit,” he said towards the end of his evidence.

“He referred to April that I came back from a meeting. Now I’ve checked all my records as best as I can... There was never any meetings in April, May or June.

“I don’t believe his account is correct... There’s a series of events there that can clearly demonstrate that he’s got the timelines wrong. There were no meetings. He was more than likely on a break during that period he referred to.

“And the appointments or the decisions around where the [trade commissioners] would be, the office locations etcetera, were actually made by the public service and that was already given as evidence by those public servants last week to this hearing.”

Government: That statement was incorrect, but it was tabled and given weight by the opposition, and that had a detrimental effect to you and your reputation.

Barilaro: People are allowed to put forward what they believe and genuinely if that’s what Mr Connell believes occurred, it’s up to him to put that statement forward.

But he said his evidence countered the accuracy of the statement.

Barilaro’s evidence has now concluded.

Other evidence has come about. But that’s not on me. I had no role in seeking any favour or special treatment in the process. It’s just impossible, it’s an independent public service process.

Faehrmann: I put to you then the person that was doing your bidding was minister [Stuart] Ayres.

Barilaro: I don’t believe he was doing my bidding. Listening to the evidence of last week, he was sought advice on a number of occasions and he gave that advice.

Now, it looks muddy and messy. Absolutely, I can understand the perception and understand what’s occurred in the public. I’m not silly, I understand that. But that wasn’t the case ... I genuinely believed the process was fair ... and that would give me cover.

The political attack was always going to come, I’m not silly about that, but I was confident that the process was so clean, so independent, that my selection [could easily stand]. [I’m] disappointed that it hasn’t been as clean as it should have been, and I’m the victim, I’m not the perpetrator.

What did I do wrong? I got offered a job, I accepted the job ... I can’t tell you what occurred behind closed doors because I wasn’t involved in it.