Clover’s vision: Town Hall Square will be George Street on steroids

This week, Lord Mayor Clover Moore and the City of Sydney endorsed the proposed scope of work for “Town Hall Square”, which would mean the knocking down of seven buildings bound by George, Park and Pitt streets – including the one containing Woolworths – to create a large public square. I talked to her on Thursday.

Fitz: Thank you for your time, lord mayor, on what I know is a busy week. Looking up your story, I was fascinated to see that your whole political journey started 46 years ago, also on the issue of a public space, which has resonance with the current proposal. Can you tell us that story?

CM: [Laughing] Yes. My husband and I had come back from London and bought a little house in Bourke Street, Redfern, and I wanted to take our very young children to the park. But that “park” was covered in asphalt and it had cyclone wire all around it, with barbed wire on the top, and it was locked every night. I, and other residents, wanted an open park, with grass and trees. So I wrote letters to the council, letters to the local member, Pat Hills, letters to everyone. And then someone said to me, “You won’t get anywhere without 500 signatures on a petition.” So I set about getting 500 signatures. And then I sent that off, and I still got nowhere.

Fitz: And yet, by this point, you’d barely broken into stride?

CM: So, I started a little community group. We met in our living room. And then, when the election for council came around, I asked everyone I’d met during that process if they would run for council to help get a better neighbourhood. And no one would, so I did. And we got our park, just the way we wanted it.

Fitz: And here you are, 46 years later, doing much the same, on a bigger scale! If you get this Town Hall Square up, would it be fair to say it’d be the perfect bookend to your career in public life? Is that part of your dream: to open yet more space to the public?

CM: It’s not just my dream. I was actually on the council when lord mayor Doug Sutherland moved that we create a square opposite Town Hall, and the council strongly supported him. And that’s when he started purchasing the buildings. And successive councils, including the council that I have led over the last 21 years, has been buying buildings as they become available. We only have one to go, and that’s Foot Locker. And the minister for local government has said we can compulsorily acquire it now. So we’re now ready to go.

Fitz: OK, if you had to write down a description of this proposed square on your thumbnail, or using your thumbnail, how would it go? How will this square look?

CM: One of the things that we’ve done that’s been so successful in recent years is transforming George Street, which was a traffic sewer but now has light rail. It means it has now become a most loved street, with people sitting on those seats every day under the trees, looking at the flowers, chatting to their friends. It’s transformed George Street, and that transformation has spread across the city, too. The city is really buzzing. So, on my thumbnail, the Town Hall Square will be George Street writ large. All that beautiful paving on George Street will just continue and flow into the square.

Fitz: And vegetation?

CM: Yes. It will have deep soil planting and large trees, with lots of seating, lighting and cafes – a place where people can pause and enjoy the city, right in the middle of the city, socialising, celebrating and looking back to Town Hall. And then we can have great events there, festivals there. We can have democratic protests. It can be a people’s place. All the people now living in the city will enjoy it very much. It’ll be a Trafalgar Square, a Piccadilly square, like Piazza San Marco in Venice.

Fitz: All right, when Bordeaux did this, their many public squares had up to six or seven floors of car parking stations beneath them. Do you want that? Or would that only encourage the cars?

CM: Absolutely not! We’ve got Metro and we’ve got trains. As you say, car park stations would only encourage those cars. We want a city for people, not cars.

Fitz: You say you want this Town Hall Square to start with actual demolition by 2028. Let’s say it was late 2028, after Sydney city council elections. Would you dream of making like Miley Cyrus as you came in like a wrecking ball, riding the ball, still as lord mayor, as you begin your gazillionth term as lord mayor in your early 80s?

CM: [Wryly] I never say never.

Fitz: From here, you understand the process and we, the people, don’t. When the rest of us want to build something, we have to make and seek approval for a development application from the council. In your case, you are the council, so do you just say, “all those in favour of us, say aye”?

CM: We take advice from our staff but we have it assessed externally. We certainly don’t do it ourselves. But we’ve got to get the design absolutely right, too. So the development application is being prepared now, and that will be ready by the end of this year. That should be approved by 2027, and then demolition in 2028, with completion by 2031.

Fitz: OK, but I still don’t understand the DA. Do you approve your own?

CM: A private planner will do the assessment and make a recommendation to us, and at our planning committee we will pass it or refuse it.

Fitz: I’m guessing you’ll pass it, given you proposed it.

CM: We will. But, you know, the private planner will have to do a lot of work to ensure every contingency is covered. It’ll have to be done with the same accuracy as all the other DAs.

Fitz: All right, one of the key criticisms is that you will need to knock down the Woolies building, which is a 100-year-old art deco structure with heritage value. The one dissenting vote on your council, from Councillor Yvonne Weldon, has said that’s too valuable a building to knock down. What’s your response?

CM: Well, Woolworths has known since the 1980s that this project is happening. And as there’s a 14 per cent vacancy rate in commercial activity in the city, they could easily move to another site. And for those people complaining about losing the supermarket, there’s a Coles just down the road.

Fitz: Yes, but what about the art deco and heritage aspects of a 100-year-old building?

CM: Well, that’ll be well documented. But I think this square is more important. It is a major square, for the global city of Sydney, and we have many other fine art deco buildings.

Fitz: And yet Paul Nicolaou, the executive director of Business Sydney, is another critic and he says this is a move to discourage business, that it will “tear at the commercial heart of the city at precisely the time it is needed most”, that you need money going into resuscitating retail, not into knocking down valuable buildings with strong working businesses.

CM: I disagree. We need money going into attracting people into the city, attracting business into the city, attracting tourism into the city, into having a beautiful city – and that is what will drive the business. I’d also say that the business community, other than Paul Nicolaou, is very excited about this.

Fitz: Have you got a name for the square? Surely we can do better than “Town Hall Square”?

CM: No, we don’t have a name yet. We will be looking for an Aboriginal name when we do but we haven’t yet determined the method of choosing that.

Fitz: What about Patyegarang, the young Cammeraygal woman of the Eora nation who was a key figure in the early life of the colony, who lived in a hut at Dawes Point with Lieutenant William Dawes, and who was a key bridge between black and white Australia? “Patyegarang Place” has a certain ring to it …

CM: Yes, well, it won’t be a decision made by me. We’ll ask the community and we’ll do a lot of work and research and come up with something strong to be put to the council.

Fitz: OK, can I pitch you another great idea for a square while I’ve got you? There was a brilliant piece written on this in the Herald a few years ago, as a matter of fact, I wrote it. Can I give you the pitch?

CM: Go on.

Fitz: What about “Circular Quay Square”, where we could have our own Piazza San Marco by the harbour, instead of by the canals?

CM: Absolutely. A square at Circular Quay, a square at Town Hall and a square at Central. We’re already doing a lot of work around Circular Quay. If you’ve been down there lately you’ll see that we’ve opened up laneways and dining areas and have lot of beautiful new developments. But the thing that’s missing is we need the government to remove the Cahill Expressway and relocate the rail line, to provide a beautiful square right there to look at the most beautiful harbour in the world. Right now, all you see when you get down there is this wall. It’s terrible.

Fitz: I agree, but the idea I was promoting was to push the ferry terminal 100 metres further out into the harbour – you create a fabulous and truly open space, bordered by the Opera House, the MCA, the city and the harbour, right there. [Let me hear you say, ‘hey!’]

CM: Well, you’re making it even more adventurous. I’ll just be satisfied with removing the Cahill Expressway and being able to have a large paved area there.

Fitz: OK, let’s finish on – and I’m sorry but I will have to insist on this name – “Patyegarang Place”. If you get it up, will it be your proudest achievement in political life?

CM: We will get it up. And I’d like to think I’ve got lots of moments to be proud about in political life. I’m pretty proud about George Street, to begin with.

Fitz: Thank you, lord mayor.

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