Berejiklian inquiry day six as it happened: John Barilaro tells ICAC ‘there should have been a disclosure’ of former NSW premier’s relationship with Daryl Maguire

• Mr Barilaro said the Berejiklian-Maguire relationship was a conflict of interest and should have been disclosed. He said the government would have done “everything differently” when it was considering a $5.5 million grant to the Australian Clay Target Association, a gun club in Mr Maguire’s electorate of Wagga Wagga, if it had been aware of the relationship. He told the ICAC that Ms Berejiklian “would not have been part of the conversation or the debate”. Ms Berejiklian was the NSW treasurer and chair of cabinet’s expenditure review committee in December 2016 when the state government signed off on the grant.
• Had the government known of the relationship, Mr Barilaro said “we all would have had a level of conflict” and there may have been a “ripple effect of conflicts that we would have had to manage, not just the interest conflict of interest for Ms Berejiklian”.

• He said the same considerations applied when assessing a proposed multimillion-dollar grant to the Riverina Conservatorium of Music in Wagga Wagga, which was also pushed by Mr Maguire and considered by the Berejiklian government.
• Mr Barilaro told the ICAC he had seen MPs disclose less serious relationships such as acquaintances. “I’ve seen many of us declare conflicts of interest for just knowing someone because we worked with someone or have been an associate with someone, let alone being in a relationship,” he said.“The conflict was the relationship.” Asked by Ms Berejiklian’s barrister, Sophie Callan, SC, if he had also disclosed intimate relationships, Mr Barilaro said: “That’s a hard question because my relations are with my family, that’s a hard one to disclose.”
• Mr Barilaro said the application for funding for the gun club had some “unusual” features, including that it did not specify a pool of funding from which the $5.5 million would be sourced. It was also unusual for a relatively small project to be considered by the committee, and it was handled with greater urgency.
• Mr Barilaro said he had no particular interest in the project. He does not recall Ms Berejiklian advocating for it during the committee meeting but said that she was supportive of it in 2017, when she became premier, and would ask him for updates about the plan. He agreed with Ms Berejiklian’s barrister that this was not unusual and she asked for updates on many projects. After the government signed off on the funding, he took over as the minister responsible for overseeing the development of a satisfactory business case to support the money actually being released.
• Daryl Maguire could be a “pain in the arse” and like a “dog with a bone” in lobbying for projects in his electorate, Mr Barilaro said. This included in relation to millions of dollars in funding for the Riverina Conservatorium of Music.
• A former adviser to Mr Barilaro, Peter Minucos, also gave evidence this morning about his involvement in a business case to support the funding for the gun club being released. As we have heard throughout the inquiry, the state government made the $5.5 million grant to the Australian Clay Target Association conditional on a satisfactory business case being produced. Mr Minucos said the business case that accompanied the original application to the expenditure review committee in December 2016 was “deficient”.

• During 2017, external consultants worked in conjunction with the state government on a revised business case for the project. The first draft estimated the costs of the gun club upgrade would outweigh the benefits and estimated a benefit to cost ratio (BCR) of 0.88. That figure later increased to 1.1, which was high enough to justify government expenditure. Mr Minucos said he was not interested in the figures in the business case but with whether the consultants followed Treasury guidelines. Asked by Ms Berejiklian’s barrister if he considered that he was “seeking to apply any political pressure in an effort to have the BCR number inflated”, Mr Minucos replied: “No.”
• Mr Minucos said he did not recall anybody telling him words to the effect of “pull your head in” or that he should not engage directly with the external consultants about the business case.
• Mr Minucos did not recall Ms Berejiklian taking a particular interest in the gun club project. He said he understood the project had political backing because the expenditure review committee had approved the spending.

The ICAC hearing will resume tomorrow at 10am and is expected to hear from three people who were political staffers at the relevant times: Neil Harley, Brad Burden and Sarah Cruickshank. Ms Cruickshank is now a NSW bureaucrat. They are not accused of wrongdoing.

“What about any other intimate personal relationships?” Ms Callan asked.

“That’s a hard question because my relations are with my family,” Mr Barilaro said.

Mr Barilaro is giving evidence at the ICAC as a witness and is not accused of wrongdoing.

Ms Berejiklian has denied all wrongdoing and is slated to give evidence at the inquiry later this week. She has said history will demonstrate that she acted in the best interests of the people of NSW.

“There should have been a disclosure,” Mr Barilaro said of the relationship between Ms Berejiklian and Mr Maguire.

The ICAC has previously heard Ms Berejiklian and Mr Maguire were in a relationship between 2015 and 2018.

“ERC decisions are taken seriously,” he said.

Ms Berejiklian is expected to appear later this week to give evidence at the ICAC. She has denied wrongdoing.

Mr Barilaro is not accused of wrongdoing.

Ms Berejiklian supported the proposal enough to put it on the agenda, he agreed.

Asked if she was also supportive of the substance of the proposal, Mr Barilaro said: “I’m not sure about that.”

He can’t recall the input of the then-treasurer during the discussion of the proposed grant.

The ICAC is investigating the circumstances in which the government made a conditional grant of $5.5 million to the association while Ms Berejiklian was in a relationship with the then NSW Liberal MP for Wagga Wagga, Daryl Maguire, who supported the proposal.

Ms Berejiklian has denied wrongdoing and will give evidence at the inquiry later this week.

Mr Barilaro is taken to his evidence at a private hearing at the ICAC on September 10, 2021.

During that hearing, he was asked if Ms Berejiklian was supportive of the agenda item during the meeting of the expenditure review committee on December 16, 2016. Mr Barilaro agreed.

Mr Barilaro has told the ICAC today that his evidence has been consistent. He agreed that Ms Berejiklian’s support for putting the funding application on the ERC agenda was an indication that she was supportive of it.

Mr Barilaro said that if the relationship between Ms Berejiklian and Mr Maguire was known at the time, her cabinet colleagues would have expected the “treasurer would have excused herself from the debate”.

He said in his private hearing that if the relationship had been known “I would not have supported the agenda item, I believe my colleagues would not have supported the agenda item”.

He said today that they would have handled the process in a different way.

• Former NSW deputy premier John Barilaro has agreed the Berejiklian-Maguire relationship was a conflict of interest. He said the government would have handled its consideration of a $5.5 million grant to the Australian Clay Target Association, a gun club in Mr Maguire’s electorate of Wagga Wagga, quite differently if it had been aware of the relationship. Ms Berejiklian was the NSW treasurer and chair of cabinet’s expenditure review committee in December 2016 when the state government signed off on the grant. Mr Barilaro is giving evidence as a witness and is not accused of wrongdoing.

• Mr Barilaro said the application for funding for the gun club had some “unusual” features, including that it did not specify a pool of funding from which the $5.5 million would be sourced. It was also unusual for a relatively small project to be considered by the committee, and it was handled with greater urgency.
• Mr Barilaro said he had no particular interest in the project. He does not recall Ms Berejiklian advocating for it during the committee meeting but said that she was supportive of it in 2017, when she became premier, and would ask him for updates about the plan. After the government signed off on the funding, he took over as the minister responsible for overseeing the development of a satisfactory business case to support the funding actually being released.
• Daryl Maguire could be a “pain in the arse” and like a “dog with a bone” in lobbying for projects in his electorate, Mr Barilaro said. This included in relation to millions of dollars in funding for the Riverina Conservatorium of Music in Wagga Wagga, which is the second funding promise of interest in this inquiry.
• A former adviser to Mr Barilaro, Peter Minucos, also gave evidence this morning about his involvement in a business case to support the funding for the gun club being released. As we have heard throughout the inquiry, the state government made the $5.5 million grant to the Australian Clay Target Association conditional on a satisfactory business case being produced. Mr Minucos said the business case that accompanied the original application to the expenditure review committee in December 2016 was “deficient”.

• During 2017, external consultants worked in consultation with the state government on a revised business case for the project. The first draft estimated the costs of the gun club upgrade would outweigh the benefits and estimated a benefit to cost ratio (BCR) of 0.88. That figure later increased to 1.1, which was high enough to justify government expenditure. Mr Minucos, who is not accused of wrongdoing, said he was not interested in the figures in the business case but with whether the consultants followed Treasury guidelines. He also denied that political pressure was exerted to increase the BCR.
• Mr Minucos said he did not recall anybody telling him words to the effect of “pull your head in” or that he should not engage directly with the external consultants about the business case.
• Mr Minucos did not recall Ms Berejiklian taking a particular interest in the gun club project. He said he understood the project had political backing because the expenditure review committee had approved the spending.

The ICAC hearing will resume at about 2pm with more evidence from Mr Barilaro.